This page presents the recorded teaching of Dr. Ida P. Rolf (1896–1979), founder of Structural Integration, in her own words. "Rolfing®" and "Rolfer®" are registered trademarks of the Dr. Ida Rolf Institute. This archive is independently maintained for educational purposes and is not affiliated with the Dr. Ida Rolf Institute.

Ida Rolf in Her Own Words · Topics

Ida Rolf on Marcus Bach

Marcus Bach was the comparative-religion scholar Ida brought into her 1974 Open Universe lecture series to talk about spirit — and whose talk she then spent the rest of her career chewing on. Bach was not a practitioner of the work. He had received three hours of structural work from Ida and confessed openly that he knew very little about the practice. What he brought was something Ida wanted and did not have herself: a working historical vocabulary for the word *spirit*, traced from Plato through Galen through a modern American Methodist named Thayer who proposed that *spirit* be understood as *spiritual energy*. That formulation — spirit-as-energy, énergie as the missing term of the religious triad — gave Ida a hook she returned to in advanced classes for years afterward. This article gathers the actual Bach passages from the 1974 Open Universe stage, Valerie Hunt's framing of them, and Ida's own subsequent meditations on what Bach had given her to think about. The material is dialogic, unfinished, and unusually candid about what Ida did not yet know.

Who Marcus Bach was, and why Ida wanted him on her stage

Marcus Bach came to Ida's 1974 Open Universe series as a guest with credentials in a field she did not herself work in. He was the founder and director of the Foundation for Spiritual Understanding, an interfaith research organization, and he had spent decades doing comparative fieldwork — Haitian voodoo, Filipino and Guatemalan psychic healing, acupuncture in Taiwan and Japan, Zen at Sojiji, the Ramakrishna monks, transcendental meditation in Delhi, the Australian aboriginal dream-time. Valerie Hunt, who hosted the Open Universe sessions at UCLA, introduced him as someone whose research had brought him into contact with nearly every major religious and folk-healing tradition in the world. He had also, by his own admission, received three hours of structural work from Ida. The introduction Hunt delivered is one of the more useful documents in the archive because it explains *why* Ida wanted Bach in the room: he had spent his life trying to define what religion contributes to the total health of the total person, and he had arrived at the work as a candidate.

"that, he has also looked into and sought the unusual and the mysterious aspects of man's life, which excite most of us. He has studied the voodoo in Haiti, the psychic healers in The Philippines and Guatemala, acupuncture in Taiwan and Japan. And he's gained validity or insight into the validity of spiritual healing, as well as some spiritual breakthroughs. Then he appraises these on the background of his extensive work and research and thought in the spiritual area. He's founder and director of the Foundation for Spiritual Understanding. This is an international and interfaith fellowship with the aim of testing practical approaches to individual role in modern life and his spiritual integration. He's a member of the steering committee of the Rolf Institute. And I understand he has joined that fortunate group who has had both the agony and the ecstasy of having having had doctor Idyne Ida Pauline Rolfe's hands upon him in being Roth. And it is both agony and ecstasy. As a man and as a lecturer, all those people who've heard him have agreed that his world wise approach that he has a really world wise approach to a deepening individual faith. And they agree to his amazing insight into the deepest art of human understanding. His lectures are popular, as I understand, sympathetic and sparkling with humor in life. And you can't ask much more than that. Actually, he's in the mainstream of a very thrilling story of man's search for truth in a world of belief and tradition. And if we say he's in the mainstream, I would go even farther. I believe he is the mainstream of that search for truth. And with that, it gives me utmost pleasure to present to you Doctor. Marcus Bach. Thank you very much, Doctor. Hunt, for the most generous and comprehensive introduction."

Hunt introduces Bach to the Open Universe audience, laying out his fieldwork and his arrival at the practice.

This is the framing document — it tells us what Ida and Hunt thought Bach was bringing to the stage and why they wanted him there.1

Bach opened his own remarks by acknowledging the introduction and then locating himself in a tradition of inquiry. He had a story about an audience with Pope John in which the Pope had confessed that he sometimes forgot, in the moments between waking and sleeping, that he himself was the Pope and would think *I must talk to the Pope about this.* Bach used the anecdote to disarm the audience and then moved into the substance: he had spent thirty years researching what religion contributes to the total health of the total person, and Structural Integration was the practice that had pulled him closest to the integrating factor he had been searching for.

Bach's working definition: spirit as the breath of life

Bach began where the etymology begins. The Latin *spiritus* means *to breathe*, and across the nine major religious traditions he had researched, plus roughly forty minor ones, he found a near-universal claim: the breath of God is the breath of life, and the breath of life is the breath of God. This was not, for Bach, a theological assertion. It was an observational generalization across cultures. He used it as a starting point — a working definition concrete enough to do something with — and then began the harder work of asking what *spirit* meant beyond the breath: a person's *spirit of compassion*, the *spirit* of an era, the spirit one finds in someone's eyes. The point of the move was to refuse the easy reduction of *spirit* to either pure metaphor or pure metaphysics and to ask what kind of thing the word might actually be pointing at.

"It may be new to most of you, however, that in all of the religions that I have ever researched, the major religions, about nine of them particularly in the world, and about 40 of the minor religions. I can almost say that without exception, I mean, may generalize and say that all of these religions are agreed that if spirit does mean to breathe or breath, then the breath of life is the breath of God, and the breath of God is the breath of life. They are agreed upon that. God did breathe into man the breath of life. Now who and what God is is to me a mystery. I am wary and I am suspicious of people, though not in any antagonistic sense, who feel that they have God neatly packaged, have had him in the laboratory, and that this, they can be sure, is the way God will work. I spoke not long ago in Indiana at a university at Evansville, And I had a workshop there, and they had had a tornado in a nearby city that simply wrecked a mobile camp and, of course, there were casualties and all of that, you may remember. And I think of earthquakes out here in California, and for anyone to say that God is predictable or whatever this cosmic force may be, whatever the universal force may be, it is quite a presumption. But at any rate, something gave us life. And the breath of God then, let's at least postulate, is the breath of life. So naturally, the longer we breathe, the longer we'll live. And maybe the more we know about God, maybe the better our breathing will be. Obviously, that isn't quite enough as even a working definition of spirit because spirit means many things. We talk about a person having a spirit of compassion or"

Bach traces the word *spirit* back to its Latin root and across the world's religions.

This is Bach's working definition, the etymological floor on which the rest of his talk builds — spirit as breath, breath as life.2

What Bach was avoiding, even as he laid down the etymology, was the move that most religious vocabulary makes: equating *spirit* with *soul* and packaging the result inside an institutional theology. He told the Open Universe audience that he did not want to take the lecture into the differentiation between soul and spirit because the course was on structural integration, not ecclesiastical integration. The joke was sharp enough that Ida quoted it back at him later. But the substantive move underneath the joke is what matters: Bach was carving *spirit* away from soul-talk because soul-talk had become a closed system — heaven, hell, purgatory, the migration of the soul after death. He wanted *spirit* as something the new age could ask serious and courageous questions about. He wanted it back from the church.

The triad and the open universe

The conceptual frame Bach used throughout his talk was the *triad* — body, mind, spirit — and the long historical story of how the triad got fragmented. He told the audience that ancient and so-called primitive cultures had largely held the triad as a unitive entity. Egyptians, Greeks, Orientals, and especially the philosophical traditions had at various points understood that body, mind, and spirit were not separable. What broke the unity, in Bach's reading, was the closing of the universe — the moment at which dualistic thinking began to fracture what had been integrated. Plato resisted the fracture. Galen, dominating medical history for fifteen hundred years with his humoral concept, tried to hold the triad together by describing the spirit as composed of three substances — *natural, vital, and neurological*. Bach was using the historical sequence to argue that the unitive view had always been available; it had simply been overlaid by the dualism that produced modern Western medicine and modern Western religion.

"that Plato may have had an idea which, if you pursue it and read in this field and contemplate in this field, it may become very revealing and very interesting. That not only did religions think in terms of the of the triad, not only did religions think in terms of the breath of god, but so did a philosopher and a metaphysician such as Plato."

Bach walks from Plato to Galen, locating the spirit-as-élan-vital reading in the philosophical tradition.

This is the Plato-Galen passage Ida cited back to her advanced students for years — the hinge where Bach proposes that spirit might be the *élan vital* of life.3

Bach's larger frame for the talk was what Hunt and Ida had been calling the *open universe* — the idea that the closed, Newtonian, three-dimensional view of reality had been giving way to a view in which energy fields, consciousness, and life processes themselves could not be contained inside the older categories. Bach said the closed universe was still operating in the shadows of the hospitals, in the white coats and white frocks of doctors and nurses, while the open universe was tentatively being built outside of those institutions. He thanked Ida explicitly for what he called her *courageous and absolutely inspired attempt* to deal with the word *spirit* — and confessed that he himself did not know what spirit was, only that the work was getting closer to recognizing it than any group he had investigated.

"I was interested in the structural integration book that it quoted rather at length from doctor Still because I have spoken down there through the years at at the college. But I had the feeling, and I say this to you in all sincerity, and I wouldn't be here tonight if I didn't feel that way. I have the feeling that Rothen comes closer to recognizing spirit as the life force and to seeking to make it unitive more than any group that I have investigated or interested myself in. The others still put life into happy categories or unhappy categories. The medical profession, generally, The colleges, generally. The church, generally. Happily, happily into categories. Now Rolfing isn't a religion, but I had this feeling that Rolfing came so close that I wanted to I was thrilled when doctor Ida told me she said, you know, she used this phrase, and I've been using it for years, we've never discussed it. She said, I want to have more to say about the total person, the total person. That really, you know, hit me because that's what I was interested in. I want to tell you something. When I saw the film in that beautiful theater over there when I saw the film and when I heard the phrase, Gravity is the therapist, then I began to see how in my work, my relationship with a basic idea, which I will now state as follows. The microcosm man must be structurally integrate integrated to the macrocosm, the universe, or the cosmos. This is something that I had the feeling was coming through to me in the exercises, which I myself had been developing."

Bach tells the audience why he came to speak about the work in the first place.

This is the most direct statement in the archive of why Bach thought the work mattered to the religious question he had spent thirty years on.4

Two short passages from the production archive's cached Haiku selection extend this section. The first is Bach landing the Plato-to-Galen sequence on Galen's specific tripartite formulation of the spirit. The second is the sentence in which Bach explicitly proposes that the spirit could be the *élan vital* in life — and confesses, in the same breath, how little he knows about the practice he is addressing.

"Then came a great physician by the name of Galen, who dominated medical history for about fifteen hundred years with his humoral concept. He postulated, or he tried to feel that the triad in man, the soul or the spirit, that this was composed of what he called natural, vital, and neurological."

Bach names Galen's three substances of the spirit.

Galen's tripartite formulation is the medical-historical precedent Bach offers for treating the spirit as something composite and analyzable.5

The companion sentence — Bach's confession of how little he knows about the practice even as he proposes the élan-vital reading — is the most candid moment in the lecture. It is also the moment Ida cited most often in her later teaching, because it modeled exactly the kind of intellectual honesty she wanted between disciplines.

"speculated on the point that I want to make that the spirit could conceivably be the Elan Vita in life. And that it is at this point, it seems to me, and I'm speaking knowing very little about Rolfing as I'm sure you know, I've had three hours of treatment."

Bach proposes the élan-vital reading and admits the limits of his own knowledge.

The candor of the admission is what made the proposal usable for Ida — Bach was not claiming authority over a practice he had only sampled.6

Thayer and spirit as spiritual energy

The single passage from Bach's lecture that Ida cited most often afterward was his quotation from Thayer — a modern American religious thinker who proposed that when one speaks of spirit, one is speaking of *spiritual energy*. This formulation gave Bach, and after him Ida, a way to bring *spirit* into proximity with the energy-field work Valerie Hunt was doing with the electromyograph and the aura photography. If spirit were a kind of energy — a tenuous energy, an energy not obeying the inverse-square law, an energy that integrates rather than divides — then the triad could in principle be reunified through energetic means. Bach was offering Ida a working hypothesis. Ida took it and ran.

"And come to Thayer, who said, when I speak of spirit, I am speaking of spiritual energy. Now, this, I think, brings us closer to the heart of spirit as I at least am trying to view him or it tonight. A spiritual energy."

Bach quotes Thayer's proposal that spirit be understood as spiritual energy.

This is the line Ida cited most often after Bach's talk — the Thayer formulation that gave her a working bridge between *spirit* and the energy-field language Hunt was using in the laboratory.7

Bach pushed the Thayer formulation further by tying it back to his microcosm-macrocosm framing. The microcosm man, he said, must be structurally integrated to the macrocosm — the universe, the cosmos. When he saw the film of the work and heard the phrase *gravity is the therapist*, he said, he began to see how his own work converged with Ida's. The energy that integrates the triad within the individual is continuous with the energy that integrates the individual to the cosmos. Gravity, in this reading, is one expression of that integration. Spirit, as spiritual energy, is another. They are not the same energy, but they belong to the same conceptual frame — they are the open universe's two main ways of describing how a part fits into a whole.

Ida's response: spirit as the intangible increment

Ida did not let Bach's talk pass without sustained reflection. In her 1974 Open Universe lecture that followed Bach's appearance, she stood in front of the audience and said that she felt greatly indebted to Doctor Bach because he had given her something to meditate on. She acknowledged that she did not know what spirit was either, and that this was the courageous part of Bach's talk — that a man of his learning and experience would say so out loud. Then she proposed her own working formulation: that spirit might be the *intangible increment* that, when added to a collection of parts, creates a whole. The formulation came directly out of the holistic axiom that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Spirit, on this reading, would be whatever the *more than* refers to.

"What are we talking about when we are talking about spirit? All people who subscribe to a holistic universe are willing to subscribe, or a holistic concept, subscribe to a definition which says that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. This is widely accepted now. I can remember in the days of when Norbert Wiener popularized it here in this country, people thought for a while. They couldn't believe this, but now it is a commonplace and we all subscribe to it. And what do we mean? Perhaps spirit is that intangible increment which in its edition creates a whole. Now, this is something which came to me as I listened to Doctor. Bach's speech talk, and I've been doing a little bit of meditating on it ever since, and I'd love to thank Doctor. Bach for giving me this food for meditation. It's an interesting notion. Can we get any closer to it? Perhaps. You see, one option is to equate spirit with energy. Maybe? One option is to see it as a special something, a special something, a tenuous energy having rules of its own, not obeying the laws of the material universe, because in the material universe energy varies in accordance with spatial relations. Energy varies with the square of the distance, light, sound, and so forth. These energies, have to do with our three-dimensional universe, have this characteristic. But the spirit which you find in the universe that Doctor."

Ida, on the same stage Bach had used, takes up his question and offers her own formulation.

This is Ida thinking out loud immediately after Bach's talk — the *intangible increment* formulation is her direct response to him.8

The second move Ida made was to extend Bach's Thayer-spirit-as-energy formulation into the physics of the open universe. She pointed out that in the material universe, energy obeys the inverse-square law — light, sound, and so on vary with the square of the distance. But the energy Hunt had been describing in the open-universe lectures was not bound by space or time. It had a different quality. Spirit, if it was that kind of energy, was not material energy. It was the *special something* — and Ida used the phrase deliberately, as a phrase that had been around for centuries — that gets added to the equation and changes what the equation is calculating. She knew the phrase sounded vague. She used it anyway because she did not yet have better language.

"universe that Doctor. Hunt has been talking about, that is not bound by space, nor is it bound by time. It has a different quality. This special something which people, this tenuous energy which people like to see as a certain something that goes into the equation, it's an age old concept, this age old concept of a special something. Nowadays, when people talk about it, they talk about it as though you had dumped a teaspoon or a tablespoonful of something into a human being, And he runs on it just like a car runs on gasoline. You're laughing at me. Judy came home last Monday morning. She had left here on Saturday evening about, I don't know, 07:00, 08:00. She had driven all night up to San Francisco to attend Werner Erhardt seminar. She went to Werner Erhardt seminar, and you know this is not an easy trip. All day Sunday. The car was picked up again Sunday evening, and she and her coworkers, shall I say, drove down here all Sunday night and appeared in my door about quarter past nine Monday morning, and she was triumphant and exultant. And she says, oh, I have so much energy. Now, what was she talking about? She did. She did. But what was she talking about? This is what I want to know. I'm afraid I'm a hopeless materialist. I hope Doctor. Hunt will have the answer to what was she talking about."

Ida pushes Bach's energy-spirit formulation into the contrast between material and tenuous energy.

This is Ida working through the physics of Bach's proposal — what would it mean for spirit to be a kind of energy that does not obey the inverse-square law?9

Ida pressing the case in the 1975 Boulder class

A year after the Open Universe lectures, Ida was still chewing on the Bach material in her 1975 advanced class in Boulder. The exchange is one of the most candid passages in the archive about what Ida thought she had and did not have. She tells the students that Marcus Bach would be the right person to ask the question — what is the spirit, exactly? — except that Bach does not know enough about the practice to answer it. She references what she said about Bach in her tenth-hour paper. She tells the students Bach was doing a lot of talking about spirit and that she wanted to know what he was talking about. Her own working position, she states plainly: *my idea of spirit equals energy, pretty much. As you get more energy, you get more into the spiritual field.* The sentence is more declarative than anything she said in 1974. By 1975 the Thayer formulation had hardened into her own position.

"I and you maybe you are, but I mean, mean, I don't know what you've been named to recently, but it needs somebody that knows something about the spirit. Now to Marcus Buff would make a wonderful question for that sort of thing, except he doesn't know enough about Ralphie. Yeah. You know? We had him on that Los Angeles program, I think you know. And he what he well, when you read my paper, when you read that transcript of my tenth hour, what I said about Bach was true. Bach was doing a lot of talking about the spirit. And I said, I want to know what he's talking about when he's talking about spirit. I wanna know what these people are talking about when they're talking about energy because my idea of spirit equals energy, pretty much. As you get more energy, you get more into the spiritual field. But Well, there might be a way of talking about that."

Ida tells her advanced students in Boulder how she now thinks about the Bach question.

This is Ida a year after Bach's talk, in front of senior practitioners, stating her working position — spirit equals energy, more or less — with characteristic candor about what she still does not know.10

What the Boulder passage reveals is the limit Ida saw in her own colleague. She wanted someone who knew about spirit. She wanted someone who knew about the work. She wanted, in effect, a Bach who had been worked on thoroughly enough to test his religious vocabulary against the embodied experience the practitioners in her room were producing every day. Bach had three hours. The interdisciplinary collaboration Ida wanted — between religious-studies scholarship and structural integration — never materialized at the depth she was reaching for. The Bach lecture remained the closest she got. She kept citing it.

Valerie Hunt's laboratory frame

Bach was not the only voice in the 1974 Open Universe series proposing a redefinition of spirit. Valerie Hunt, the UCLA physiologist running the electromyographic and aura measurements on Ida's clients, was working the same question from the laboratory side. Hunt told the audience that her measurements showed an increased baseline of bioelectric activity in clients of the work who were sitting at rest — which she at first interpreted as tension and then was forced to reinterpret, because once the client began an active task, the baseline dropped well below pre-work levels. She concluded that the higher resting baseline was something other than tension; the person was more *open to the experience.* The reframing matters because it was the empirical correlate of Bach's hypothesis: if spirit is spiritual energy, then changes in bioelectric activity after the work might be a measurable trace of something Bach was naming theologically.

"If some of the great men in the world can do it, I'm no great man, but I can do it too. Because I'm as human as they are. So I think all thought forms exist. The electrodynamic energy fields of other living tissue or the electromagnetic fields of the physical universe or even I would say the spiritual energy forces which have existed in the history of man are still there and which exist today and emanate from individuals. I believe it. And that there is an order to this dynamic equilibrium and it is that order which is total physical, mental and spiritual health. And, if man is a part of this open universe then we have to open up. And the disease is the derangement. We've heard this. It is the closing of the process so that the individual does not have the process of opening up. And that opening means the ability to experience now and not and pre anticipate what is going to happen to you with Pythagoras or a death experience or anything else that occurs. Living things have the possibility of closing part of this open universe as I think non living things do not have that capability. And as Earhart described, we program our mind. As Rolf talks about the random body, the physical, mental, and spiritual randomness and schismness, where she talks about allowing gravity to support and not destroy us. So I can no longer view the body, absolutely cannot view the body as separate systems or tissues. It is impossible. And the reason I can't is like Earhart. It doesn't work. You can't explain life. You can't explain the body. You can't explain experiences. You can't explain illnesses. You can't explain behavior. You can't explain the spirit. You can't explain it. And if I can't explain it that way, then"

Hunt brings the laboratory frame to bear on the same question Bach had raised.

Hunt is doing the empirical work that complements Bach's theological work — and her formulations show how Ida's circle was triangulating spirit, energy, and structure across multiple disciplines.11

Hunt went further than Bach in one important respect. She was willing to claim that the changes in connective tissue produced by the work might extend down to the level of cellular processes — mitosis, RNA expression, the rate of cellular rejuvenation. Bach kept his claims at the level of integrating the triad. Hunt pushed the energy-field hypothesis into biochemistry. The two voices, side by side on Ida's stage, gave Ida a stereoscopic view of the question: theological framing on one side, laboratory measurement on the other. Both stopped short of explaining what spirit *was*. Both were comfortable saying so. Ida's own position, articulated most clearly in Boulder a year later, was that the open question was the right question to keep open.

Bach on the body of fascia and the secret signal

Toward the end of his Open Universe appearances, Bach made a claim that was characteristic of the period and of his sensibility. He proposed that the meridians in the body — the acupuncture meridians — and the fascia might be the channels through which a *secret signal* of life flowed, a signal that had not yet been sounded or discovered. The claim is speculative and Bach knew it. What is interesting is the route he took to it. He arrived at the fascia by way of comparative religion — by way of his fieldwork in voodoo and Filipino healing and his lifelong question about what the religious traditions of the world had been trying to name. He did not arrive at the fascia the way a practitioner would, by working with the tissue. He arrived at it as a candidate for the material substrate of what he had been calling spirit.

"I think there may be a secret signal in the body which has not yet been sounded or discovered. I was one of the first who was on the programs with Cleve Baxter. I did an article about him, you know, his concept of the sensitivity of plants and their response to humans. I called it unicellular ESP in the article I wrote in Bob. I have a hunch that the meridians in the body, the acupuncture meridians, and the fascia in the body, probably there are secret signals which are just now, probably through disciplines such as yours, are being discovered at a at a deeper depth and in a different perspective than they have been under chiropractic, osteopathy, or any of the other disciplines which may or may not be closely related to your field. All I can say is that that's the way Roffing seems to me to be. It brings together the triad of the individual on a scientific basis. It unites the microcosm and the macrocosm. It begins to look anew at the web of life. And I don't think I could say could find any better or more interesting way to close this than to tell you what I felt in the Routhing sessions, outside of the fact that empirically, I mean, I believe the pictures and all of that. But there's even something that the pictures don't show, and that is a revival of spirit."

Bach offers his fullest statement on what he thinks the work is and why it matters.

This is Bach's summary judgment on the work — that it brings the triad together on a scientific basis and unites the microcosm to the macrocosm.12

The speculation about fascia as a signal channel echoes claims being made elsewhere in Ida's circle. Valerie Hunt, in her own Open Universe lecture, had proposed that the connective tissue might be the interface between the energy fields of man and the energy fields of the cosmos — that the work, by reorganizing the connective tissue, might be opening a channel of reception for energetic information that the five senses could not transmit. Bach's framing and Hunt's framing converge on the same intuition: that fascia might be doing something for the open-universe energy system that medicine had never noticed because medicine had been built around the closed universe. Whether the intuition was right is a separate question. What matters historically is that Bach's lecture gave Ida a religious-studies vocabulary for an idea her own circle was already converging on from the laboratory side.

What Bach did not give Ida, and what she kept asking for

The most candid thing in the archive about the Bach exchange is what Ida said in the 1975 Boulder class about the limits of what Bach could give her. She wanted, in her own words, somebody who knew about the spirit — and she could not find that person in her professional circle. Bach was the closest she got, and Bach knew very little about the work. The conversation Ida wanted to have was a conversation between someone who could speak the religious-studies language fluently and someone who had been worked on thoroughly enough to feel the embodied dimension of the religious question from the inside. Bach had three hours. The interdisciplinary collaboration she was reaching for never came together in the form she wanted.

What Bach did give her, and what stuck, was the Thayer formulation: spirit equals spiritual energy. By the time Ida was teaching in Boulder a year later, that formulation had moved from a tentative proposal into her own working doctrine. She used the energy-equals-spirit shorthand in classroom passages where she was reaching for language to describe what was changing in a body that had received the work beyond the structural mechanics. The shorthand was not adequate and she knew it. But it gave her something to say in front of advanced students who were watching their clients change in ways the structural vocabulary alone could not account for.

"It was a a cultural block that we have I wanna say the reason, but we have, for a long time, built into our culture a specific view of the human body as of the human being as somehow divided into two entities. Well, alright. Yes. This is what this is what always comes up in this place. But you see, that guy over there has been reading my book and drawing the pictures from it. And if he's not careful, he'll have that whole book out in the middle here. Well, both of these stories deserve looking at. What you are talking about is a something which I very often go into in the course of the first demonstration. I talk about the fact that a hundred and twenty five years ago, there was a vitalistic hypothesis, and this stretched back into, well, through the Christian era anyway. There was a vitalistic hypothesis that premised that a man is a spirit. Now, as a spirit, he can get away with most anything if he knows how to pray. He"

Ida, in a different room and a different year, returns to the vitalistic question Bach had reopened for her.

This passage shows how Ida was still working the Bach material into her standard demonstration patter — the contrast between the closed-universe and open-universe views of what a man is.13

Coda: the unfinished conversation

The Marcus Bach material in the archive is unusual because it is one of the few places where Ida hosted a colleague who was explicitly working a question she did not herself feel qualified to answer. She did not pretend to know what spirit was. She did not let Bach off the hook for not knowing what the work was. She put the two of them on the same stage and let the limits of each be visible. The result, across the 1974 Open Universe series and the 1975 Boulder class, is a sustained example of how Ida thought interdisciplinary collaboration ought to work — not by collapsing two vocabularies into one but by holding them in tension while the underlying question stayed open.

What Bach gave Ida was a historical vocabulary — Plato, Galen, Thayer — for a word her students kept asking her about and she could not answer with the language of fascia alone. What Bach took away, by his own report, was a revival of spirit he felt in his three hours of structural work — something the photographs did not show but that he was willing to testify to as a comparative religion scholar of thirty years' standing. The exchange was incomplete and they both said so. The incompleteness is the documentary value. It shows what the late-career Ida was reaching for and could not yet name.

See also: See also: Marcus Bach's earlier Open Universe lecture (UNI_031) in which he opens the question of spirit by way of a four-minute exercise program and the Latin etymology of *spiritus*; included as an additional pointer for readers interested in his framing of the religious question. UNI_031 ▸

See also: See also: Bach's continuation lecture (UNI_033) reflecting on the closed-universe Christianity of his Swiss evangelical upbringing — the Sabina anecdote — and his proposal that the meridians and fascia carry a secret signal of life; offered as a pointer for readers interested in his autobiographical framing of why he came to the work. UNI_033 ▸

See also: See also: Hunt's parallel laboratory framing of the same questions (UNI_042, UNI_073) — her electrodynamic-field view of the body and her view of the soul as the most highly motivated and energized conscious unit known in the universe; offered for readers tracking how Bach's theological vocabulary and Hunt's empirical vocabulary triangulated on Ida's stage. UNI_042 ▸UNI_073 ▸

See also: See also: Ida's 1974 reflection on the autonomic chain and the *finer body* (RolfB5Side1) — the place where she most explicitly connects the structural work to the metaphysical vocabulary Bach gave her; included as a pointer for readers tracking how the Bach material entered her standard teaching. RolfB5Side1 ▸

See also: See also: Hunt's discussion of the seventh and eighth sessions and the expanding aura (CFHA_04), which gave Ida the empirical correlate of Bach's spirit-as-energy formulation; included as a pointer for readers tracking the laboratory side of the conversation. CFHA_04 ▸

See also: See also: Bach's discussion of breath, prana, and the centrality of the breathing pattern in RolfA6Side1 — the place where the *spiritus* etymology gets connected to the physical mechanics of how breath moves in a body that has received the work; offered as a pointer for readers tracking how Bach's religious vocabulary touches the body directly. RolfA6Side1 ▸

See also: See also: the thermodynamic and energy-flow framings of the work on RolfB3Side1, where the analytic counterparts to Bach's spirit-as-energy formulation are developed in the language of physics — entropy, ordering, resonance — by colleagues working alongside Ida; included as a pointer for readers tracking how Bach's theological vocabulary sat next to the engineering vocabulary in Ida's circle. RolfB3Side1 ▸

Sources & Audio

Each source row expands to show how the chapter relates to the topic.

1 Course Logistics and Introduction 1974 · Open Universe Classat 0:00

Valerie Hunt, the UCLA physiologist who had been running biofield measurements on clients of the work, introduces Marcus Bach to the Open Universe audience in 1974. She catalogs his fieldwork: voodoo in Haiti, psychic healers in the Philippines and Guatemala, acupuncture in Taiwan and Japan, spiritual healing traditions worldwide. She names him as founder of the Foundation for Spiritual Understanding, an interfaith research fellowship, and a member of the steering committee of the Rolf Institute. She mentions that he has received three hours of structural work — both the agony and the ecstasy of having had Ida Pauline Rolf's hands upon him. The introduction matters because it establishes Bach as the credentialed religious-studies voice Ida brought in to address the word *spirit*, which she herself did not have vocabulary for. On the Marcus Bach page, this passage explains why Ida wanted him in the room at all.

2 Spirit as Breath of Life 1974 · Open Universe Classat 29:43

Marcus Bach, lecturing at UCLA in 1974 as a guest in Ida Rolf's Open Universe series, begins his definition of the word *spirit* by going to the Latin root, *spiritus*, which means *to breathe*. He reports that across roughly nine major world religions he has researched, plus forty smaller ones, there is broad agreement that the breath of life is the breath of God and the breath of God is the breath of life. Bach is careful — he says who and what God is remains a mystery, and he is suspicious of people who feel they have God neatly packaged. He moves from the etymology into the broader uses of *spirit* in everyday English: the spirit of a person, a spirit of compassion. On the Marcus Bach page, this is the working definition Bach offered Ida and her circle to start from.

3 Plato, Galen, and Teilhard 1974 · Open Universe Classat 7:35

Marcus Bach, lecturing at UCLA in 1974 in Ida Rolf's Open Universe series, traces the philosophical history of the word *spirit*. He notes that Plato placed the spirit halfway between the visceral organs and the mind — suggesting that even two or three hundred years before the Christian era, the philosophical tradition was already speculating that the spirit might be the *élan vital*, the life force in living things. Bach then jumps fifteen hundred years to Galen, the great physician whose humoral concept dominated medicine for fifteen centuries. Galen tried to hold the triad of soul or spirit together as composed of three substances — natural, vital, and neurological. Bach uses the sequence to suggest that the unitive view of body, mind, and spirit has always been philosophically available; the fracture into dualism is more recent than people assume. On the Marcus Bach page, this is the central historical hinge of his argument.

4 Rolfing and the Life Force 1974 · Open Universe Classat 21:07

Marcus Bach, speaking at UCLA in 1974 in Ida Rolf's Open Universe series, tells the audience that he has researched acupuncture, yoga, voodoo, the dream-time of Australian aborigines, lived with Zen monks at Sojiji Temple in Japan, lived with Ramakrishna monks, taken transcendental meditation training in Delhi, and lectured at osteopathic and chiropractic colleges. Against that background, he tells the room directly: Structural Integration comes closer to recognizing spirit as the life force, and to seeking to make it unitive, than any other group he has investigated. He says that other traditions — medicine, the colleges, the church — still put life into happy or unhappy categories, fragmenting the triad. The work, he says, is not a religion, but it points toward what he had been searching for. On the Marcus Bach page, this is the testimony Ida quoted back at her students for years.

5 Plato, Galen, and Teilhard 1974 · Open Universe Classat 7:56

Marcus Bach, in his 1974 UCLA Open Universe lecture in Ida Rolf's series, follows the Plato passage by jumping fifteen hundred years to Galen — the great physician whose humoral concept dominated Western medical history for that span. Galen, Bach reports, tried to feel out the triad in man — the soul or the spirit — as composed of three substances which he called natural, vital, and neurological. Bach uses Galen's formulation to argue that the unitive view of body and spirit has always had a medical precedent, not only a religious one. The point is that the spirit, even in Galen, was treated as something with parts that could be named and analyzed — not as a vague theological residue. On the Marcus Bach page, this is the medical-historical complement to the Plato passage.

6 Plato, Galen, and Teilhard 1974 · Open Universe Classat 6:48

Marcus Bach, lecturing at UCLA in 1974 in Ida Rolf's Open Universe series, proposes that the spirit could conceivably be the *élan vital* in life — the vitalist life-force concept from late nineteenth-century French philosophy. He says this directly to a room full of practitioners of the work, and in the same sentence admits he knows very little about the practice, having received only three hours of treatment. The combination is the move that gave the proposal traction with Ida: Bach was offering a hypothesis, not a doctrine, and he was openly acknowledging the limits of his standing to make it. On the Marcus Bach page, this is the most candid moment in his lecture and the sentence Ida returned to most often.

7 Plato, Galen, and Teilhard 1974 · Open Universe Classat 9:12

Marcus Bach, lecturing at UCLA in 1974 in Ida Rolf's Open Universe series, quotes a religious thinker named Thayer who proposed that when one speaks of spirit, one is speaking of *spiritual energy*. Bach uses this formulation to argue that *spirit* — rather than being a vague theological term — might be approached as a force, something that could be worked with, something that could cause the integration of the triad of body, mind, and spirit. He has just walked the audience from Plato through Galen and now lands in the modern era with Thayer. The formulation matters because it gave Ida a working bridge between the religious vocabulary she did not have and the energy-field vocabulary Valerie Hunt was building in the UCLA laboratory. On the Marcus Bach page, this is the single most influential sentence Bach gave Ida.

8 Introduction by Dr. Hunt 1974 · Open Universe Classat 1:12

Ida Rolf, lecturing at UCLA in 1974 in her own Open Universe series, the same evening she had hosted Marcus Bach as a guest speaker on the subject of spirit, takes up his question. She thanks Bach directly for his courageous attempt to deal with the word *spirit* and confesses she does not know what spirit is either. She then proposes her own working formulation, drawing on the holistic axiom that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts: spirit, she suggests, might be the *intangible increment* whose addition creates a whole. She offers a second possibility — that spirit might be equated with energy, a special tenuous energy not obeying the laws of three-dimensional material physics, an energy not bound by space or time. She is thinking out loud. On the Marcus Bach page, this is Ida's immediate philosophical response.

9 Introduction by Dr. Hunt 1974 · Open Universe Classat 0:00

Ida Rolf, on the UCLA Open Universe stage in 1974 the same evening Marcus Bach spoke about spirit, takes Bach's Thayer-derived formulation — spirit as spiritual energy — and pushes it into the physics. She points out that in the open universe Valerie Hunt has been describing, the kind of energy at issue is not bound by space, not bound by time, and does not obey the inverse-square law that governs light and sound. It has a different quality. This *tenuous energy*, this *special something*, is the age-old concept people have always reached for when describing what gets added to a living being. She tells an anecdote about her daughter Judy returning from a Werner Erhart seminar in San Francisco exhausted but exultant, saying *I have so much energy* — and Ida confesses she does not know what Judy was talking about. She hopes Hunt's laboratory work will eventually tell her. On the Marcus Bach page, this is Ida working through the physics of Bach's hypothesis.

10 Opening and South America Seminars 1975 · Rolf Advanced Class 1975 — Boulderat 0:00

Ida Rolf, teaching the 1975 advanced class in Boulder a year after Marcus Bach had spoken at UCLA on the word *spirit*, brings the Bach question back into the room. She tells the senior practitioners present that Bach would be the right person to take up the question — except that he does not know enough about the practice. She references a Los Angeles program she and Bach had appeared on together, and her tenth-hour paper in which she discussed Bach. She states her own working position directly: her idea of spirit pretty much equals energy. As one gets more energy, one moves further into the spiritual field. She is more declarative here than she had been on the Open Universe stage; the Thayer formulation has firmed up into doctrine. On the Marcus Bach page, this is Ida a year later, with the question still active.

11 Conclusions on Open Universe 1974 · Open Universe Classat 31:46

Valerie Hunt, the UCLA physiologist who had been running biofield measurements on Ida Rolf's clients and who hosted the 1974 Open Universe lecture series, brings the laboratory frame to bear on the same question Marcus Bach had raised about spirit. She tells the audience she has come to view the living body as an electrodynamic energy field in the fullest holistic sense — inseparable from the universe, from the energy fields of thought, from the spiritual energy forces that have existed throughout human history. She believes there is an order to this dynamic equilibrium and that this order constitutes total physical, mental, and spiritual health. She describes a meditation session in which she felt herself growing as a small child while two men's energy fields embraced her — and went, briefly, to thank Pythagoras. On the Marcus Bach page, Hunt is the empirical voice paralleling Bach's theological one.

12 Spirit, Rolfing, and the Web of Life 1974 · Open Universe Classat 7:47

Marcus Bach, in his closing remarks at UCLA in 1974 during Ida Rolf's Open Universe series, offers his fullest summary of what he thinks Structural Integration accomplishes. He proposes that the acupuncture meridians and the fascia in the body may carry a *secret signal* of life that has not yet been discovered — and that disciplines such as the work may be uncovering this signal at depths chiropractic and osteopathy have not reached. He tells the room that the practice brings together the triad of the individual — body, mind, spirit — on a scientific basis, unites the microcosm and the macrocosm, and looks anew at what he calls the web of life. He says that beyond the empirical evidence of the photographs, what he felt in his sessions was a revival of spirit. On the Marcus Bach page, this is Bach's summary judgment.

13 Why New Premises Are Needed various · Soundbytes (short clips)at 2:08

Ida Rolf, lecturing at Pigeon Key, walks through what she calls the standard cultural block — the way Western culture has built into itself a specific view of the human being as somehow divided into two entities. She references the vitalistic hypothesis that prevailed up until about a hundred and twenty-five years ago, in which a man was considered a spirit who could get away with most anything if he knew how to pray. She is teaching practitioners how to sell the basic premises of the work to people who are not yet familiar with the energy-system view of the body. The vocabulary echoes Bach's open-universe framing directly. On the Marcus Bach page, this is Ida using Bach's frame in her standard teaching, years after his original lecture.

Educational archive of Dr. Ida P. Rolf's recorded teaching, 1966–1976. "Rolfing®" / "Rolfer®" are trademarks of the DIRI; independently maintained by Joel Gheiler, not affiliated with the DIRI.